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Looking for understanding

Hey.
So, today I got pretty pissed off. And Kovu told me I should go to the forum about it, as I am unsure what to think, and he wants me to find understanding outside the system.

So. First off, someone joked about suicide to me. And that got me fucking livid for a good 8 hours before bed. It affected me so much because it wasn’t just about a random person, it was about someone I care about that is very clearly going through shit and it shouldn’t be joked about that you’d “make them commit suicide” by doing a certain thing to trigger that. I don’t care if it was a joke, it’s absolutely fucked up and just shows how apathetic this person is about the topic of suicide. And then they have the nerve to fucking tell me to “not cut myself” when I pick up a random sharp object like I’m going to just slice my fucking throat from ear to ear out of the blue. Like what do you fucking take me as? Yea I have scars but do you think I’m just going to kill myself because “oh depression = kill yourself”. Do you not understand that we are just people who go through very deep fucking issues and traumas and we fucking grow from it. And after that we try our best not to hurt ourselves when we get better because said shitbags like you want to call us out as “edgy” or “weak” for relapsing because we have a fucking mental illness. What do you fucking take depressed and suicidal people with any mental fucking issue as? We aren’t a fucking joke.
Because of this anger I have I can’t tell whether I’m just seeing the worst in someone or I’m pissed off for a very good fucking reason. I don’t know if I’m being a pessimistic asshole or I’m just pissed off at charasmatic douches who say “Oh they don’t do that with me, I guess people just like me alot” with a smirk after I talk about people being a dick to me or other people and them having the opposite situation. And this is the same person of course. That I stupidly wanted to be friends with for the sole reason of comfort for those past wholesome friendships I’ve never gotten to have. Because they seemed like a wholesome person on the outside. Though on the inside I could tell something was off of course.
And you know, I wouldn’t be pissed off by that comment if not it were for you literally purposefully rubbing in my face the fact that “people like me so much” when you mention people in general or a person I like, with a little smirk like you want to sound like a douche, like you want to see me hurt. Like you’re completely aware of how fucking egotistical and self absorbed and up your own ass you sound. And about the person I like, it really is none of my fucking buisness, but then you brag being close to this person and purposefully bring it up to me? Like you know and you want me to get upset? And then you want to be my friend after hurting me? Are you fucking serious? Like I don’t give a shit about other people’s buissness in life but if you’re purposely going to rub it in my face that you can make friends easier than me or simply “make” people like you, I’m going to be fucking pissed off. In the first place you don’t even know where you stand with people anyways, acting like they’re fucking objects. Even knowing that though, the words still hurt. I’m going to fucking feel like shit. What do you expect from me? You’re purposefully being self absorbed to me it’s going to cause a fucking human reaction. And then you have the nerve to twist everything I said to “oh so now I’m a narssacist because they like me?” Really? You’re gonna blow that low m8? You’re a fucking narsassist because you talk about people like they’re fucking trophies to win. You know how fucked up that is? You really think there’s nothing wrong with you? Because I could guess a good handful of a few fucking things.
You literally took pride in the idea of me missing you because someone joked that I cried, which was a fucking joke. But you’re so self absorbed you beleived it and kept bringing that shit up to me? And idc if people like you say “oh it’s a joke”. If you’re gonna clearly act like you beleive it, EVEN AFTER I tell you multiple times it wasn’t true and there was no reason to beleive that, you still do? Yea. You’re a self absorbed prick. And then you make comments about people like they’re an entertaining book to read? Again. We aren’t fucking objects. You don’t act like that to a person unless they are dangerous. And even then you need undeniable evidence. Don’t treat people like a fucking game, whether it’s friends or love or whatever the fuck is going on in your weird freakish little head. You don’t fucking talk To, or About, Humans like that. You can be curious yes, but you don’t treat it like a game.
And you know I didn’t want to see this person as Bad, I actually wanted to make a friend for once, because the seemed okay, aside from an odd feeling I had that turned out to be true. What am I supposed to do if they want to make it so obvious to me? I mean there is no excuse for these actions. Absolutely no excuse. You could defiently say "oh it’s because I’m young and stupid " or “well you got what I meant compeltley wrong and now you’re only seeing the negative in me” Well bro, what the fuck do you expect? You’re gaslighting yourself at that point.

Shit why do the people I want to be friends with always turn out to be fucking narsassistic? Fuck people man. All I want is to find a friend that genuinely cares about people but all I find is people with a fucking god complex. I hate it.

And I would love to chat in the discord but I’m fucking blocked from main chat for a good bit, but maybe for good reason because I do tend to be a passionately emotional person if chat gets sad or big bad or whatever. I speak my mind you know?

I just wanted to know from someone outside the system if I’m seeing everyone in only negatives or they actually did something bad. I mean Kovu tells me its undeniably unacceptable, but idk if I’m seeing negatives, but then again idk this person very well, they may be fun to talk to but this is all that they show me when it comes to getting to know them. I can’t trust it. Idk if this is trust issues or toxicity. I just want to know.

-X

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I don’t know how the timing would work out, but I have a chat function in my Discord channel. If you’re interested, I’ll send you a link.

The person you have talked about it sounds self-absorbed, shallow, insensitive, and has a lousy sense of humor. Such a person has no right to occupy your emotional real estate. When I encounter people like that I prefer to react, at least internally, as though I just stepped in some manure. Yeah, it’s an “oh shit” experience, but my thoughts don’t linger around the event. You “stepped into the manure,” when you encountered this person. Just as you wouldn’t attach emotional baggage to a shitty shoe, consider “scraping him off,” of your mental note pad.

Yes, running into a negative person like that can change your mood in a way that it becomes easy to perceive that many more people around you are also assholes. The fact that so many people are indeed assholes, complicates things.

You can become irritable when around assholes, and the irritation takes a bit of time to fade. That’s why it’s easy to take innocent comments the wrong way after being around them.

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@Systemofconfusion

Sorry you are going through a rough time. It’s not your fault that the ones who you thought were friends chose a dark path. It’s hard to comfort someone who I don’t understand fully. Betrayal, I do because it happened to me from time to time. I am still learning to forgive. I don’t know if you forgiven this person, but take your time. Have you thought about cutting ties with this person you speak off? I can encourage you and advise you to do so, but it is up to you.

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Thankfully, I am lucky that it is the last day I had to see them, as they are going somewhere else now, but I had promised a headmate of mine I wouldn’t give them my number or get close to them. We are trying to ween ourselves out of the cycle of meeting shitty people and accidently overlooking said shittiness and befriending them. I broke the promise though because I had some hope yet again that maybe people werent all that bad and got fooled again. It seems the only time I’m happy and safe is when I’m convinced people are just shitty and not to make friends. Forgiveness doesn’t nothing anyways. It only hurts you more and makes you more open to abuse. I never forgive.
-X

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I completley agree with all of this but how does one avoid stepping in manure, because it is kinda always around me.
Are you talking about the heart support discord or another cuz I was talking bout heart support server

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Hi friend :slightly_smiling_face:
I am sorry you had another bad experience with a complete shitbag of a person. It must seem to you like these people are everywhere. That person was a narcissistic and possibly a sociopath. The way he talked and treated people says that much. Your headmate was right about not giving this person your number. That person is dangerous for you and the people around them.

Making jokes about something serious can lighten the situacion. Dark humor can be fun to. The problem with said person is he made remarks about a person knowing it hurts them without any regard for them. Humor is fun when it makes people feel good not hurt or sad. If you are just joking people should laugh, if they are not laughing and they are feeling uneasy around you you are doing something wrong. Humor is not an excuse for bullying and other bad behaviors.

You were not evereacting. That person was bad and you noticed. Dont beat yourself up. There are some people that should be told the truth about their behavior. You did just that. I am proud of you. If you are still unsure if said person was a narcissist I will post a video here about how to spot a narcissist.

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@Systemofconfusion

If you don’t forgive, you won’t have peace. You got to fight to get peace in your life. By doing it, get rid of negative people. Don’t let them abuse you. You’re better than this.

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Forgiveness is a terrible idea.

Given the level of things people go through in this world, forgiveness does absolutely nothing for any issue that has undeniable and irreversible damage on ones mental and physical health stability. You can forgive someone who hurts you and wants to change, you cannot forgive someone who has taken your dignity or ruined your entire life and doesn’t care that they did anything wrong. That is just putting them on a pedestal and completley inhuman at that point. I know for a fact the people here who have gone through despicable things do not want to be told to “just forgive” it’s far more complicated than that. Time or Justice is the only way to fix anything. Forgiveness has nothing to do with healing and does not reverse the things happened to them, it does absolutely nothing. No one wants to hear that they need to forgive their abuser, they forgave enough already and they shouldn’t have to do it again. That’s just like telling yourself “it’s my fault in the end” And I am speaking in general terms of this entire communities traumas.
If one wants peace they must reach out for help and grow their traumas, with people alongside them if possible, they must find better people to fix this world with and remind them of the good. They may also go on medications or deep long term therapies, because healing is far more complicated than “forgiveness”. You must face your traumas in whatever way that works for you and that can take years, if not your entire life.
I know you don’t know alot about me. I fight enough in my life to find peace. I am constantly, fighting, and I get rid of too many negative people. I have found only being alone ever helps. And not letting people abuse you is alot more complicated. Being an empathic person I can’t help but worry how these people live with themselves and worry about other people getting hurt from them. Just because they aren’t abusing me doesn’t mean they aren’t abusing someone else. But of course these people don’t care enough and even take pleasure in hurting these people. And that is why they can live with themselves. Do you really think people like this should be forgiven? It’s exactly why our world is so fucking upside-down and turned around and the bad rule over the good. Because we let them. Forgiveness is the exact opposite of “Don’t let them abuse you.” It is the reason this world is so upside-down. We need Justice not “Oh I forgive you for ruining my life and taking everything that matters to me including my body, my self worth, my family, my friends, and everything that I have ever loved because I know deep inside you’re probably a person too and therefore you should be forgiven.” That is absolutely complete and utter twisted bullfuckery. Because these aren’t people at all, they want this validation just so they can hurt innocent people again. Forgiveness is toxic.
And yes, Betrayal hurts, but there’s no reason or need to forgive them, you just need to grow above them, realize you are better than them, not degrade yourself more and letting them rule over you because you “forgive them for being a horrible human being.” because they don’t consider you their equal, people like that will always consider themselves better than you. If they are still your friend though, and they changed, then yes that is a perfectly okay reason to forgive. But forgiveness should never be so easily gifted to someone who hurt you, took pleasure in it, didn’t regret it, and walked away. Forgiveness is its own way of giving up your safety because you are trusting them, which can be dangerous whether you still know them or not. Because that is still affecting you mentally. And in the abusing ways I speak of, its accepting that they will hurt you or others again, and that- that is somehow “okay”. No one wants to trust someone who hurt them and ruined their life and give up their own self worth for some vile peice of shit who doesn’t deserve it. In the long run that is only going to cloud their veiw of reality and what is good and bad, and only make them run into these people even more. Which is the exact opposite of: “Don’t let them abuse you, you’re better than this.”
To me it seems you feel forgiveness is just normal thing to do, and that it’s healthy, which worries me because so many people think that and it’s not healthy at all for the very reasons stated above and the fact it is a huge reason this world is suffering so much. To me the reason you’d be “still learning” is because it’s not healthy and instead of growing from it and realizing you’re better than that you are basically degrading yourself down to their level, letting them puppeteer you, and letting them know you still love them when they could care less either way except for that said validation, giving them the go to, to hurt other people in the future. Because they will think that future people will just “forgive them” and that it doesn’t matter. Which is why we have so many messed up people in this world and how they eventually find themselves in prison. They do not need validation, they need rehabilitation. And forgiveness does not help their mental health in any way either.

As said before, this is in the sense of general toxicity, I’m no longer speaking about the person I am pissed about, but the person that they probably are. As well as the people in my own past who have done abusive things to me. Because I know in their eyes they never cared either way. Which is why justice needs to have it’s say for once.

Know I have nothing against you as a person, it’s just the beleifs you hold that concern me.

-X

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In a lot of ways, I agree with this. I personally try to never use the word forgive because there is so much expectation attached to it, too much of a focus on the victim/survivor than the perpetrator.

It’s a long road to getting over a bad or traumatic experience, and I know you’re fighting hard, and fighting daily. However you can make a moment of peace for yourself, do that. Forgive for yourself, not for them. Forgiveness is in your control and no-one is automatically deserving of it, even if they apologize. I have found it’s best to consider forgiveness when the worst of the pain and hurt is dealt with.

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Aye friend!
I’m getting over it, slowly but surely. It always cuts deep the day it happens. But it only gets less stressful and painful afterwards. Time heals wounds afterall.
It does indeed seem like they’re everywhere, but when I’m alone I feel alot better.
I can’t say I knew the dude well enough to relate everything on that list of red flags, but I knew my old toxic shithead of a friend from a long time ago well enough that I know how to spot the red flags before I see all sides of them. And seeing just a few show up, whether I am mistaken or not, I am not going to take my chances. Just irritated at myself for giving them my number eventually after telling myself and my brothers so many times I wouldn’t. Idk why I make last second decisions like that, but at least it wasn’t really a real number anyways.
Yea, I understand it’s okay to make jokes sometimes, that’s why self deprecating jokes are to the self, not someone else. Like if someone were to joke about how they in the past tried to kill themselves, yea, it’s pretty much a coping mechanism, but this person was not talking about themselves, which is why it is so fucked up. And idk if they were repeating the joke or not, but I don’t care to know anyways. Suicidal jokes about someone else should never be taken lightly and you shouldn’t make fun of making someone want to commit suicide for doing a certain thing. Even if you had the okay to say that from them, that’s still enabling that suicidal or mentally ill human to think their self worth isn’t important enough to be serious about and their life is just a joke. That is just a big no. It really does effect them even if you’re unaware. And the same goes for threat jokes.
Dark humour can definitely be funny, but there is a huge limit. And making that seem okay is going to negatively affect others in the long run.
It really is sad that narcassists cant see through their own actions half the time, even if you show them the truth. The only way to help the NPD sufferers is to stop it from developing in the first place, which is to stop abuse that is caused by those people’s abusers and those people’s abusers and so on and so on. Essentially stop the cycle, because there are so many more borderline sociopathic people in this world nowawadays and it’s only going to get worse if we don’t do anything.
Then again I’m overthinking again and getting too emotional over something that probably can’t be helped. I think about this way too much, which is why I just want to be left alone half the time. I need to go back to sleep.
-X

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@Systemofconfusion

There is nothing I can do to help you. I’m sorry. I hope the hatred in your heart will be gone. Thank you for replying. Take care.

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I’m sorry- I have hatred in my heart for opening up about people who have hurt me on a support forum? For talking about what happened to me and others and being rightfully upset about it? I have hatred in my heart for wanting things to be made right? Wanting justice? And stating the fact that conciliatory attitudes should only be used if both parties want reconciliation, otherwise it is extremely toxic. To try and explain this to you for the best interest of helping people in the future, because you seem pretty blind about very serious shit people go through. I’m sorry but I do not know why the fuck you decided to reply to me or anyone on here. Do not talk to Us again.
-System Irigiad

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if i understood what you want to convey - you’re saying you hope that OP can reach the point where they’re recovered enough, supported enough, to feel more positive emotions and not just things like pain and anger? And eventually, maybe feel something like forgiveness, right?

It’s not a race to get to forgiveness, as you know because you’re still getting there.

I want to believe you were coming from a place of support and love in your post, so I thank you for that.

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Your feelings are very valid, and I am grateful you share with us your thoughts and emotions.

And I agree, conciliation is most effective and meaningful when both parties see the value in it. Otherwise, it’s one-sided and can be another hurdle to overcome emotionally.

Hoping you had a moment or two of peace today, friend.

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Hi friend :blush:
When we feel stong emotions like hatered it usually has a very good reason. Hatered can be unjustified like in the case of racism atc. but these are the cases of mass manipulation. A “normal” person hates someone when they have wronged them or others in a big way like in your case. From what I know about you you are a very tolerant and forgiving person. That is why I think that when someone earns your hatered that person must have deserved it.

When it comes to @AVJR opinon about hatered I think it might come from a good place but it is… misguided to say the least. Strong negative emotions like hatered, sadness or anger are not bad per say. They play a very important role in our lives the same way as love and happiness . If we want to know how to love we must know how to hate. In a universe where there is light there must be dark. Now when we think about darkness we tend to think of it in a negative way. We are scared or we feel uneasy but darkness does a lot of good for us. It helps us sleep and it helps plants grow. The same it is with hatered. We feel hatered when we feel threatened or we feel that something is happening and it is wrong. It has its place in the world.

I am going to share my favourite video with Alan Watts where he explains this in more detail if you want to explore this topic more. Alan Watts ~ Embrace All Your Feelings - YouTube

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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

@AVJR

  1. The OP is part of a system. If you need more informations, I invite you to read about DID (dissociative identity disorder) or ask them directly to clarify. <3 There is no “crazy” people here. It’s logical to say “us” in order to emphasize the presence of the system as a whole, and not one alt speaking in particular. Sometimes you will see Systemofconfusion signing their posts with a specific name, sometimes as their complete system. All are okay. Nothing wrong is happening, no worries. Thank you for your concern though.

  2. The tag @everyone doesn’t exist on the forum, just FYI. If you need to reach out to an admin, the most effective way is to DM NateTriesAgain, whenever there is an issue.

[parenthesis closed]

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Kovu: Okay wow, Stay the FUCK away from my brothers.

Kio: Jesus dude go fuck yourself wtf is wrong with you?

Xaii- Yep. You do not belong in this community at all. You’re just like the people who have hurt me. Accusations just to get me kicked on the site now. Wow. Low blow m8. You really aren’t a good person for this community.

Kio: Wow. I’m pissed, damn bro I thought here maybe we were away from them. Sigh. It’ll get better.

Syra: @Micro Hello I appreciate you flagging this comment. I have no idea what is going on in this man’s head, it is most likely irritation and wanting to get Us kicked out the community for stating plain facts. I’m sad to see someone like this on the community trying to “support” people. I hope the best for this persons growth but I am a bit
appalled by their actions.
Thanks again for all your work and have a nice day <3
We will be keeping a close eye on this.

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I’m sorry @Systemofconfusion that you were unfortunately subjected to that. Please know that you are safe here, and loved and appreciated.

I can’t say what their motivation is, but the rest of us are aware of the System.

Glad you’re a part of this support group!

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I didn’t think there was any chat function in the HS server. I just have a little used server of my own.

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