Ongoing friend issue that's been difficult to shake off

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I know this will end up being super long, so I appreciate anyone who actually reads all this! It’s funny because I know this friend hasn’t treated me well, yet… I still miss them, I want to reach out and make amends, but I feel like that’s just inappropriate and doing myself a disservice to be the one to take the initiative and be the one to reach out after a couple attempts to talk about things confusing and hurting me. I really believe fixing things, making amends should be on them, they should take the effort at this point after dismissing me multiple times. Do they even realize this, or how they’ve treated me? Maybe they’re embarrassed and feel some semblance of shame preventing them from reaching out? Maybe they need time to realize these things? Will we even be friends if too much time passes? I’m still asking myself these kinds of questions, and while some days it’s easy, I get by just fine, some days hit me a little more than others, and I just don’t understand it.

I’ve come to see and believe that any issues I’m having with someone I need to bring up and attempt some kind of communication over. I’ve always pushed things aside in favor of not causing waves or hurting feelings, but my feelings matter too, and I’d rather not let things fester and build resentment, it feels childish to avoid things for so long.

So for some back story, back in Sept, this friend of mine became super distant, wouldn’t talk to me much, was very brief, stopped initiating conversation, stopped inviting me to things in the game we played together. She streamed, I was(well, still am) a mod. I didn’t know what was happening, if I did something wrong, I didn’t understand. I tried asking, talking about it, what happened or went wrong, something felt off. At this time, a friend of hers she had known much longer than I returned to the game. So it made sense that she was more excited to be playing with them again, but I don’t think that’s any reason really to just… make me feel ditched and kicked to the curb.

I was met with lots of resistance, invalidation and dismissal when I tried bringing that up. Ultimately she told me it was a me thing, and that she’d like to part ways. That felt bad, just so quick to jump ship on a friendship because I was expressing how she was making me feel… Didn’t talk for a couple weeks, didn’t go into her stream. Eventually I reached out, we started talking again slowly, we talked about things, both apologized, she admitted she realized she was in-fact treating me the way I was expressing. Felt like our friendship was somewhat back, there was still some hesitancy I guess, it wasn’t as it was before, but it was nice to hear her taking accountability for how she was treating me.

Anyways, fast forward to around January, our friendship was okay, still not how it was before, not talking as much but things were okay. I had known at this point, or noticed really weird things from her friend that came back to the game. He seemed very controlling, constantly in her face, just… always there. She starts venting to me about him, showing and telling me things about him, and my suspicions were right, he was very controlling, harassed her, stalked her, was very manipulative, and just overall overwhelmed her ever since he came back to the game 4-5 months ago. But in this time of venting to me, she would actually talk to me, reach out, invite me to game, it felt like good ol times again, it felt good!

None of this really surprised me about him, but every-time her and I would hang out, he would insert himself in some way into her day, bugging her, trying to talk, fix things, figure out what she was doing, make things up to her, etc. He would gift her hundreds of subs as an apology, and expect it to fix how he was treating her. It bummed me out because while I just wanted to hang with my friend and chill, it always turned into being about him, venting about him, her hopping off the game and our call because he was overwhelming her. After a week of this, I guess they talked/resolved things? But it was after this it felt like another September was happening. Stopped talking to me much, stopped inviting me to things, included him into everything again. I was pretty disappointed in this, someone like him isn’t going to change overnight, yet here I am being ditched again for it. I felt used as an ear and emotional support buddy, which… I don’t mind being there for my friends, but it’s not all I want to be for someone. I also want to hang out, chill, game, watch stuff, friend things!

A few weeks of this passed, I felt uncomfortable reaching out to her because there was always an excuse not to do something, or he had to be involved. I was also in my head of, ‘would she even say hi or initiate a convo with me if I don’t?’ and sure enough, she didn’t. Again, it was September all over again. Why is my friend just ditching me like this? I realize I’m just a back-up/convenient friend in her eyes and we just love-bombed each-other for a few months when we first started playing together a lot. I ask myself, why is this happening again? I feel I learned a bit about how to approach her with issues, I tried my best to approach things gently, just saying like, ‘hey, I’m a bit confused and hurt by some things, can we talk about em?’ and I was met with dismissal again…

I gave her some space, I let her be the one to reach out to me. A few days later she did, and she let me know she was ready to talk. The day we were going to talk, I let her know I had plans that day, so maybe the next day, she agreed, but asked me what it was about. It was a mistake, but I told her broadly it was about feeling invisible, ditched, kicked to the curb etc. This was dumb because it gave her something to work with and overthink and try to formulate some sort of defense before I even actually expressed anything.

The day comes we are to talk, I message her asking when a good time is. Suddenly she’s not ready to talk, but then hits me with a few paragraphs explaining what she thinks is bothering me, and having walls and defenses set up for those things. We went back and forth briefly, she hits me with the “again, I think this is a you thing I can’t help with” which, kind of threw me off since… this is obviously a reference to Sept when she told me this, where she later told me she realized she was treating me that way, and apologized for it, so why is she hitting me with the “again”, and with the same dismissal/invalidation? Why is this happening again? I told her I disagree, and told her she said the same thing in Sept, yet she apologized later for it, soooo?

After that I pointed out that she’s trying to predict what the problem is and formulating defenses for those things before and without even hearing me out. I kept saying that talking is okay, I don’t think she’s a bad person, talking isn’t a bad thing etc. I was never even given an opportunity to express anything about how I was feeling in the first place. It just overall felt pretty bad.

A month passed, I message her again about talking, and again I was met with dismissal and just, hostility. I was finally told, or it was hinted at to me that she was in the middle of potentially getting a divorce, her other friend from before is still harassing and overwhelming her, and both him and I aren’t making things any easier on her. While I can empathize with her marital problems, these aren’t things I was made aware of at all. How am I to blame for trying to talk for a couple hours about something hurting me when I had no clue anything was going on on her end other than avoidance?

And being compared to her other friend was kind of a blow… I know for certain I am nothing like him. In the span of a month I sent her 4 messages, all of which were 1-2 paragraphs in length… really not much at all. Yet, I’m compared to someone who sent her a 3 page google doc apology at one point, constantly tries guilt tripping her, and her saying I’m sending “constant essays”, and just more defense in herself and her assumptions of what my problem was. Maybe my mistake was not just telling her the problems out right, but I did not want to be screenshotted and sent around to friends for gossip because I think that’s lame and I know she does that, I was adamant about just hopping in a call together and talking things through like adults.

I know I wasn’t the best in my responses either, I got upset, basically said like… wow I thought I was a better friend to you than to be treated like this, that avoiding me for months is preferred over having a brief conversation and fixing things. I didn’t respond to her last message, she hit me with the “this is my last message, for now” nor did I feel any reason to keep responding, I was obviously going to continue to be met with hostility and misunderstanding and dismissal.

This was over a month ago now. We still raid together once a week in the game we play, it feels stupid to pretend like each other don’t exist, like we aren’t friends or anything. I didn’t like being in discords or friends with her still on things, seeing her on, having fun with others still, on discords talking as if nothing was wrong, yet we still couldn’t spend 2 hours one day to make amends. I unfriended her and left her stream discord a few weeks ago just to get it out of sight. No idea if she has noticed and/or if it affects any chance at her actually taking accountability and being the one to reach out in the assumption that I’m done and over with our friendship.

I guess, if anyone is even still reading this monstrosity of a post, I don’t know how affected someone might be from a divorce. As someone who’s never been in that position I might have the wrong opinion, but I feel like… if someone matters to you, regardless of what’s happening, you can afford an hour or two to talk and clear things up at some point in a month or two. Especially if you’ve still got the capacity to play this game all the time, socialize on discord, stream, etc. Had any of this been made aware to me earlier on, I think I would have been more empathetic and readily able to give some space and time or whatever, but I wasn’t.

And because of all this, I don’t know if she’ll even reach out. Maybe she wants to but thinks I’m over it. Maybe I need to realize this person isn’t the friend for me anymore. Or the friend I thought they were. But I just don’t know. And I don’t know if I try communicating again. I don’t know how. I don’t think I should brush aside feeling ditched and someone dismissing that and telling me it’s a me problem, twice now. I don’t think I should be the one to reach out when they’re the ones being like this and treating me this way. Do I just give them more time and hope they’ll realize it later? What if I’m just over it by then?

I just dunno what to do. Still okay with raiding alongside eachother, still a mod in her stream despite not watching any of her streams lately and leaving her stream disc/unfriending her on things. I don’t know what she wants or expects. And I’m the kind of person that does not do well just brushing things aside and forgetting about them. I get really emotionally attached and need some kind of conclusion, whether that means it’s clear and certain we’re no longer friends, or that we want to remain friends, let’s just talk! I just hate this avoidance, it doesn’t feel healthy, or right, or like it accomplishes anything really.

I know I could ramble on and on forever more, but I think I got most of what I wanted to down. Maybe I’ll add or edit more in later but… I dunno, I know this person hasn’t been the greatest to me, maybe in their eyes I haven’t been either, but I can’t know how they feel if they just avoid me :man_shrugging: but despite the basically 2 months of avoidance now, I still miss her and would like to talk about things… obviously there’s more to talk about now with the dismissal and treating me like this. It’s funny because it feels worse than what I originally came to her about in the first place… The avoidance is just creating more problems and it’s lame =/

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Relationships even in friendships can be tricky.

Invalidating how you were feeling is not a good start. I am sure there could be a number of things on her side, but it’s hard to know when she won’t talk to you about it.
However saying that it’s just a you thing does come across very hurtful.

I know what it’s like to still miss a friendship and long for that friendship. Like the ending of any relationship it takes time to process and get over.

I had a best friend for many many years and slowly she just stopped replying to me. I did the same as you and gave her space and every now and again would reach out to talk with no response. For me I decided that I wanted to be more valued. I didn’t want to be in friendships where I felt I had put in an outlandish amount of effort for. Looking back I did a lot for her. I did all the travelling, I spent a lot of money etc. I know there were moments I wasn’t a good friend, and I’m not saying the same is true for you, personally I had a lot of growing to do.

I can appreciate that friendship for what it was in the moment and with time have learned to keep it in the past. It was hard because like you it was a process of removing them from social platforms and then being met with requests years later felt like a weird slap in the face. How can someone ghost you to the point you don’t bother and then think it’s all going to be fine just adding them back? Or like your situation being in a game and continuing relaxed conversation like nothing has happened?

Is this the type of friendship you desire for yourself? After comments about how someone makes you feel uncomfortable and hearing her take issues with them and then her turning around and inviting them into your space? I have people my friends are friends with whom I dislike and sure there may be the odd birthday we have to come together, but my friends are aware that it’s okay for them to be friends with them and it’s okay to have separate friend time. If those friends were actively being harmful to my friends then I would probably speak up, but they don’t try to make situations uncomfortable by opening invite to our quality time with people they know I choose not to befriend and vice versa. They may mention them as a part of a story telling or I may ask about their time together because I value the happiness of my friend.

I think one thing that really opened my eyes and helped me grow was seeing how they handle confrontation and issues. Maybe my friends will talk to me about something going on with another friend, but it’s only for solution purposes and never to belittle anyone.

That’s not to say this person was a bad friend, but sadly the friendship fizzled in a bad way and things were said that perhaps aren’t yours to take responsibility for.

I know for me it was hard because I wanted them to feel sad about it. I wanted them to reach out and at least acknowledge the hurt they caused. While we can’t make people do that, we can start to separate ourselves from the responsibility and hurt it caused. Sure it can be easier said than done, but it’s not impossible once you’ve made the decision to let the friendship be where it was and not to take it with you.

Of course that’s not to say I’m making your decision on the matter for you, I’m simply coming from my own personal experience and that’s all I can do.

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I’m pretty sure it’s been an unequal friendship from the start. She lacks the capacity to maintain an unconditional, through thick or thin kind of connection, probably with anyone. Sometimes when people grow up on homes where all love is conditional, they turn out the same way. Such a person can be all warm and fuzzy and elicit a feeling of extreme closeness, but then, like flipping a switch, they turn the warmth off and transfer it to someone else for whatever advantage they see in getting close to the next person.

It may have nothing to do with upbringing. It may just be a delay in the development of wisdom and emotional intelligence. Anyway, it’s not a “you thing.” It’s a “her thing.” She’s not ready to fully understand the value of a friend like you. In her world, friends are disposable, or they can be put on the shelf and forgotten about until they seem interesting again.

There’s absolutely nothing about her behavior you need to take personally. She’s not capable of really understanding you because in her world, the kind of friendship you offer doesn’t exist. She might grow to understand and value you, but that may take months or years.

In the meantime, it’s best for you to be at peace with the fact she has less to offer you in the form of friendship than you can offer her. It’s like being friends with a cat. You can love each other, but every now and then, the cat will become distracted and wander off. When that happens, the cat’s not doing something wrong. She’s just being a cat. Similarly, your friend is just being who she is. You can’t force her to become someone she’s not. Try, and she’ll become defensive or evasive, not unlike a cat.

I think you’re ready for deep, meaningful and faithful friendships. I think she’s not yet capable of anything but friendships of convenience. So, be her friend when it’s convenient and accept that she’s going to be the same way towards you.

Hopefully, you’ll find someone worthy of your more mature kind of friendship. It’s good to allow such friendships to form slowly. It’s too easy to see good things in others that are actually projections of what we hope to see and are more likely to be the good things that exist within us.

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I feel you, I want to feel valued by my friend. If they tell me things that express value towards me, why are their actions opposite of those words? It’s easy to say things, easy to say you love your friends, to say you value someone, but if you don’t actually show it, what’s the point in those words? I got a lot of that from her. Lots of words, and while sometimes she showed value, most of the time she did not, and quite the opposite. And like you said, the dismissal and invalidating really displayed to me that I have to see her for actions rather than the words.

I know there were times I wasn’t a good friend, but honestly… it’s hard to always be a good friend when you’re met with something that doesn’t feel good. I’ve grown a lot recently, still have a lot to learn too, but I dunno, I think it’s only natural to make mistakes, or view things as bad from our end because we want better for ourselves too. I just always hope my friends understand that too and don’t leave me for it. Because of that though I’ve wondered if I made a mistake in unfriended her on things and leaving her stream discord. If I want my friends to be understanding of mistakes, I should be understanding too, but… it’s just a repeat thing with her, I can’t really continue to give chances and have hope in someone if they have no interest in changing or understanding me.

I don’t understand it either. Well… all that makes sense is, I’ve done something so horrible they want nothing to do with me which, if that’s the case, why am I still a mod, why is she still raiding alongside me in my guild, and… I tuned into her last stream briefly and heard her speak well or, as 'having a good time with (me) playing elden ring when she did" so I mean… she has good memories of me I guess, so why now is it so difficult to reach out to your homie and make amends and hear them out?

The other thing that makes sense is embarrassment and shame in treating a friend like she has me, and as I pointed out to her, for a repeat time. Whether that shame is internal and fears rejection in reaching out to me. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe there’s more reasons, but that’s all I’m able to think of or comprehend that makes sense to me. Maybe after some time they build up that courage, maybe they’re indifferent then to the outcome so they take a shot in the dark, but eh… for me, the avoidance for however long would just kill the friendship to me.

The other unfortunate thing is I know she had other friends like the one I mentioned who overwhelmed her. I don’t think I was one previously, I listened to boundaries, worked around what bothered her, I really didn’t do much of anything, but I think in a time where she was being bombarded by a lot of other friends, potential divorce, I feel like part of it was just… bad timing for everything and while I don’t think I was a bad friend, I was treated as such because of everything else going on.

I feel the same. I don’t want her to be sad I guess, but… I dunno, feel something for your friend? The acknowledgement of the hurt they’ve caused is the biggest thing for me. Surely she knows it?

So I dunno, I just feel like I’m at a crossroad. One road is to just, leave her in the past, move on, all that, etc. maybe she’ll reach out, acknowledge me, apologize, whatever. The other is thinking, maybe she wants to reach out, but maybe she’s fearful of rejection and just, won’t… so maybe I be the bigger person and try again, but, it’s like you mentioned earlier, you reached out every so often to no response. I don’t want to continue trying and reaching out just to be met with more dismissal and hostility, it’s not fair to me. I feel I did my part, I tried to communicate my feelings, boundaries, hurt, and it didn’t or hasn’t seemed to matter to them. Also being the one to reach out I feel like would make her believe that she was in right, that I’d be validating her belief that it was a ‘me thing’, and I really don’t believe that.

I just want someone I thought of as a good friend to actually show me that, to actually put in some ounce of effort and care. Just hard to come to the realization that someone I thought was that, isn’t.

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I feel like you described her perfectly. She’s attractive, and with streaming, has a lot of people coming into her stream, wanting to play, DMing her, etc. It was something I’ve realized is, she has a lot of options, it’s no surprise to me that if a friendship becomes difficult, or someone attempts to hold her accountable for things, she’ll just run from it and dispose of that friend. It’s like she has a conveyor belt of people to cycle through for friendships, but I’ve always thought, and even from what she’s told me in the past as well, she doesn’t really seem to have too many deep friendships. Most of them all seem quite superficial to me, only serving a purpose for a time. It’s funny cause I’ve recognized her phases of love-bombing certain people, and see her love bombing someone now as she did me.

The thing that sucks too, she talked a lot about not knowing peoples intentions with her, and weirdly the person she’s love bombing now put on full display his intentions via a leaked DM a while back. He denied the DM’s of course, but who wouldn’t? It’s very clear what he’s there for, yet, puts down her walls and morals when it suits her I guess? So seeing my friend putting themselves through this, in a position of being potentially taken advantage of or manipulated just kinda sucks. Even if she has treated me poorly, I still care and don’t want her doing anything that might cause more distress or hurt.

I don’t think she’s very introspective, I don’t think she realizes she treats people this way, or rather… she doesn’t understand why some of the things she does hurts people, but her words “doesn’t want to deal with the maintenance” of friendships. I also don’t think she does a very good job distinguishing differences between friends. Like how I said in my original post, she compared me to her other friend that would send her constant essays. I had to look back at my messages, and it was like I said, 4-5 messages in a month, BUT, they were in some way of similarity to her other friend, so therefore I think reacted to me as if it was to the severity of her other friend, which I don’t think was fair to me at all.

Just kind of unfortunate, because I know I wasn’t deserving of any of this sort of treatment/reaction, or comparison, and while I’m not certain, I do feel I’m in some way right about it, and there’s that part of me that wants to point that out, but… I know it will likely fall on deaf ears and achieve nothing.

I think all of this would be much easier if I wasn’t still raiding alongside her once a week. It’s just a reminder like, oh hey… it’s my friend, the one avoiding me, and I her as a response. Fun. Funnily I remember telling her as I was attempting to communicate, or telling her that talking is okay and nothing bad will come of it… that I hope we don’t just end up avoiding each-other for weeks/months… and sure enough, here we are lol

It’d just be nice to be understood, or at least… not be so aggressive in working towards misunderstanding me. I thought we were better friends than that but, I guess I was wrong. Hard for people to sit in a moment of discomfort to understand and make amends with a friend. I guess it just hurts further to know that it’s preferred to avoid me for 2+ months than to just have a 2 hour conversation to understand each other and make amends and move past things and be friends again. I feel like it really is that simple.

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It goes back to the matter of valuing the kind of friendship you offer. She can’t see the value because she’s not grown that far yet. A 2 hour conversation involves working at a friendship - actually earning one that’s mutually respectful. I don’t think she’s ready to do that kind of work or invest to that extent emotionally. Things may be different in the future, but I think you’re at the point where trying to fix things will trigger resistance in her and slow her learning process down.

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Yeah you’re right. I raided with her tonight, she ended up messaging me in response to me using a silly item on people before-hand, her being one of them. It was basically just like, ‘ohh I was doing this, and then you used that thing and this happened, haha!’ a few mins later I said fug it and wrote ‘Miss you friend, hope you’re doin okay’ maybe it was a mistake and further validated how they’ve been, but eh, I figure… it’s light enough, maybe it’ll open up some dialogue. Her response was just, ‘I have, thank you :smiley: how has the game been treating you? It’s been zzzs’ So eh, my response was simple, just ‘Yeah, I’ve just been raid logging, so’ and that was the end of that lol

No miss ya too, no asking or hoping I’ve been okay, kind of turned me off so I didn’t feel all too enthusiastic to try and continue a convo.

Either way, it was I think a small little last hoorah attempt to see if any sort of convo could get anywhere, but alas it did not. I’m just gonna do my best to not think about her or anything anymore, it’s as you’ve said, they’re nowhere, they don’t have the capacity for things. I think if she messages me again in the future as if nothing has happened between us, as if she hasn’t treated me poorly in the past I’m just going to say like, ‘Honestly dude, I’m not comfortable talking with you all willy nilly as if you haven’t treated me poorly or avoided me for months and dismissed me in response to how you’ve made me feel as a friend. So unless you actually want to grow up and talk about shit, make amends, and hear me out before jumping to any false conclusions, just leave me alone.’

I’m sure I should change it, make it less harsh or aggressive, but eh… I’ve been so soft and caring for this person, why continue being soft for them? Plus, it’s how I feel, and how I think I should treat things… take accountability and face how you’ve made me feel, or leave me alone :man_shrugging:

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Regardless of what she’s done, if you confront her with her own behavior, odds are she’ll feel like she’s being victimized. It won’t change her. She may deny that she’s been dismissive of you, or perhaps it will reinforce her delusion of entitlement she uses to justify such behavior.

You might as well be yourself, which is soft and caring. Don’t let her character change yours. Just accept who she is and her limitations. Don’t become emotionally attached to a part of her that should be there but isn’t.

If being around her is frustrating because it’s hard to be around her egocentrism, it might be best to back away.

How you feel about her behavior is your choice. You are the only person in control of your emotions. When shit happens and we get upset, it feels reflexive, but what’s really happening is an instantaneous decision to react with whatever emotion seems to fit the situation. Those reactions feel automatic because they’ve been used so often they’re habitual.

She can be accountable for her behavior, but not for how she made you feel. If she’s responsible for how you feel, that means she’s the boss of your emotions. She’s not qualified to manage them, even if she could. It’s really good news that she or others can’t make you feel any particular way. That means you’re free to ignore her shitty behavior. Or, you can decide you don’t want to be around it. You can make those decisions without letting her get under your skin.

It’s okay to have a “fair weather friend,” and when your expectations fit the kind of friendship she’s capable of, you won’t be disappointed or upset when she acts the way she does.

Odds are that you’ll have a lot more such friendships in your career, and you’ll navigate them effectively, especially now that your “friend” is giving you the opportunity to practice.

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Thank you for your continued responses, I appreciate it!

You’re right though, she ended up filling a missing spot in our raid last night and messaged me in all caps “[my characters name] :D” we casually chatted very briefly, I didn’t end up saying what I wrote above, it’s like you said… I can’t really change myself, I may want to say it, but I just can’t bring myself to.

I’m just at a loss how someone can avoid you for months and message you as though they haven’t been, or like nothing’s wrong. Maybe she’s gauging where I’m at, maybe she wants to get on friendly terms or see if that’s possible first, or she really just doesn’t see anything as being wrong. I dunno. I haven’t initiated any conversation in over a month, and at this point I really don’t know what to say to figure it out, because if I’m going to continue to be messaged and poked in this way, my inner-self just wants to talk through things and get it over with and clear the air then if they’re going to show some sort of interest in conversing.

Talk to me about things, or leave me alone. I can’t really handle some in-between guessing limbo of intentions. Maybe I just continue keeping my distance and remain friendly. But I’m just not the kind of person that’ll easily forget how someone made me feel unless they make amends for it and put in some bit of effort. So if her hope is that I forget it after a few months, it ain’t happening lol I understand my feelings are my own and up to me, but I’ve always been fairly emotional, and people’s behaviors affect me if they’re being wishy-washy and confusing.

And I know all this affects me as much as it does cause it’s like, I still care about my friend, still want the best for em, but I can’t continue to care for someone who doesn’t seem to care about me. Just hard to either pull-back, or drop that care for someone all of a sudden.

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You might surprise yourself. Think of it like caring for a cat who’s indifferent towards you. Or in my case a cat who cares intermittently, just like your friend. In both cases, there’s a hard limit on their ability to care at a higher or more consistent level. I know it sounds weird to say a human has a hard limit of emotional intelligence, but it’s entirely due to the limit being self-imposed. Sometimes, once it occurs to them that they can grow, they do.

There needs to be a difference in how you care for someone who’s egocentric/selfish/immature/manipulative, etc. In other words, it’s possible to care for those who can’t care in the same way back, but you need to protect your heart in the process.

Yeah, it can be irritating, but is less so if you accept that wishy-washy and confusing is part of who they are, and it’s nothing you need to feel responsible for or try to fix.

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