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Problems and Solutinos

TW. Suicidal thoughts, Suicidal ideation
Hello everyone
I think everybody here knows the saying “Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” Well… I have recently felt like all the healthy ways of dealing with depression, suicidal thoughts and emptiness are temporary solutions to a permanent problem. I have had suicidal thoughts since I was child. The first time I have self harmed I was like 8 or 9. The first time I have tried to kill myself i was barely 13. I remember cutting myself for several days and when I have cut myself deep enough to start bleeding… I remember being happy. I remember being happy and at peace because I felt like I would not have to suffer again. I had not cut deep enough though. I didnt go to hospital. My parents are doctors and they had some medical equipment at home so they have patched me up. I have that scar on my arm since then. It will never fade.

I am chronicaly suicidal. That does not mean I want to kill myself all the time. It means that the thought of suicide is as mondaine as the thought of “I should get something to eat”. I have been hospitalized twice. To be frank I think that when you go to hospital because of mental health issues you go there to not die not to feel better or get better. You will get more stable, you will be separated from the outside world for a while, you will get evaluated by a psychiatrist and your options of killing yourself will be severely limited. You will also participate in several activities that have the objective of teaching you how to deal with your emotions and thoughts in a healthy way (honestly not supper effective). Honestly I will never go to the psychward willingly again. Dont get me wrong they have managed to stabilize me but I know that it is really not a place where they help you deal with what is within you.
If you want to know more there is a good article about it i have read some time ago. Where do you go when you're afraid you'll kill yourself? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The truth is I feel like everything i do is a temporary fix to a permanent problem. Things havent got better as I got older. I havent found any meaning in life. There was a time when I wished for a nuclear war to start so this whole place would burn to the grown and I would have died without anybody left to grief me. Sometimes I am returning to the moments I thought I was going to die. There are time when i wish I had died those times. All of these advise. Excercise, find small things to enjoy, have a routine keep busy. Yeah… keep busy because when you dont and yous top you will notice how you dont really want to continue living. Have as many activities so you will keep your mind of the one thing it has consistently thought of in the last ten years. There are even time when I hear of people dying and istead of feeling sorry for them I get jealous. There is anger, sadness, frustration and hopelesnees within me. These words I write is me expressing them.

I guess this is it for now. I am just lying here in my bed feeling frustrated but also resignated. The life will go on unti the day it wount or the day I decide to end it. Fog is taking over my mind so yeah. Bye for now and sorry for thsi long went. I usually try to be supportive but sometimes I just have to let these negative emotions out.

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thank you for sharing these thoughts with us.

Do you have an internal voice that constantly says anything to you? Does it contribute to you feeling this way by being negative and persistent?

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Well. Its not a voice. Many people say they have a voice that tells them they are:( ugl, not enough, useless etc) For me its memories and people in those memories. For example I remember a bus driver that was kind of rude and he had probably forgot about me but I remember him every time I take a bus in that area and i hope its not him. Then there are people that had said certain things to me that I remember and They said them to me only once but in reality they have been saying them in my head for a long time now. Over and over. Its the people in my memories and the images that hurt me. the truth is I dont even have to be the one those words are dressed to to hurt me. I generaly dislike screaming and swearing. Sometimes those feelings only manifest as pain. I am put in a situation and a sudden memory shows for a second in my mind and then dissapears. Sometimes I dont even know what memory it was but the pain remains.

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hmm… in the case of the bus driver, I have some questions. If you imagined having a conversation with him, could you imagine him saying those things, confronting him with how inappropriate/mean/unkind his words were, and find some peace from that mental exercise?

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The thing is he had not really say much. There wasnt much of a conversation. It was more of his body language like rolling eyes and facepalming but that was only an exaple. I have like… idk hundreads of these that randomly appear and dissapear.

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We have a lot in common my friend.

For me, suicide is a constant thought; it’s always there. Not in the back of my head, it’s always front and center. I’ve been aware of it since I was a child too. I’ve had three attempts and I do have a plan. I don’t have any plans on completion right now tho. I know that sounds really bad, but I don’t lie about this stuff and I’m not good at sugar coating.

I actually remember feeling the same way. I’ve learned recently that the threat detection center of the brain of someone with BPD actually calms down in response to physical pain. It literally makes us feel better. Borderline personality disorder has the highest rates of self harm and suicide than any other mental illness. I don’t intentionally self harm anymore, but I don’t avoid “accidently” being hurt either.

I don’t really know where I’m going with this. I guess I just want you to know you’re not alone and I care a lot about you and really, really don’t want you to feel like I do. I really don’t.

I have that same scar and many, many more constant reminders that will never fade.

Suicide isn’t a fix it’s just the end.

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Thank you Mystrose for your response. I really appreciate it. I know that chronic suicidality is common with people who suffer from BPD. I am sorry you feel like that I really am. I don’t think I have BPD although one can never know for sure. Thank you for you support and compassion. :heart:

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From just reading your posts and knowing you here, I don’t think you do either. I think a lot of people have some of the BPD traits tho, because it’s so complex and full of the symptoms that are found in other disorders.

Lots of hugs!

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Hi. Here is an update on what has been going on.

I visited my therapist today and I had some mixed feelings that I wanted to share. I usually feel either tired or better or both after therapy. Only once had i feel like it wasnt for me. Today was really different in terms of how I felt. I had not felt super tired, I had not felt better. I had felt… a bit sad honestly. I had basically talked today about my suicidal thoughts and the way I deal with them and some other stuff but this was probably the most important point. My therapist told me that I had made progress and that after like a few sessions I would be gong to her only twice a month. Now this might be considered good but… It isnt really.

When I was talking to her about my mood swings and my suicidal thoughts today she basically told me what I had already heard from the psychiatrist at the psych ward. That we should focus more on how to live with this instead of how to change it because… it really cant be changed much more. That is basically the way I am. Now I basically thought the same but hearing it again… It made it much more final. I honestly dont feel I had made much progress since our first meeting but that is because there isnt an obvious way to progress further. I know the coping techniques, I am not actively suicidal right now, my depression sucks and it makes my life worse but it does not make me not able to function. I have I job and a place to live in. The thing is I am capable of living “normally”. There isnt much she can teach me to improve my situation. By regular standards it is already alright… but i dont feel that way. I honestly feel sad and a bit hopeless.

The desire to kill myself is still there every day. And it is not like i would not know how to silence it. I often times dont want to. I dont want to just exist i want to feel alive and feel good. but that is not the way my therapy was aiming or any kind of treatement. It was to make me stable not to make me happy. I realize that now and honestly this realization has made me very sad so my suicidal idetion is knocking at the door again…

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Dear @Ashwell,

I have read your post earlier and, to be honest, I felt the fears you describe, so deeply, because it has been part of the questions that have often made me feel like giving up. What if my whole life is going to be a never-ending fight in order to just get a decent amount of “normality”? What if I am meant to live a life without feeling true joy? Oftentimes, I feel like I focus on taking steps and actions so I wouldn’t have to think about the existential crisis I feel within. So I wouldn’t have to ask myself what’s the point if I’ll be depressed and anxious for the rest of my life. It’s what makes me believe that, one day, I will just end up too tired by the energy that needs to be gathered for a small spark of life, and will ultimately die by my own hands.

Being honest with you, I don’t have a good answer right now. And certainly that no one can really have one, because this is about something very very intimate and personal, as it is related to the meaning we find into our life. I don’t want to convey any hopelessness though. For what it’s worth, I think there is hope, and there are personal answers to find, but we may not be aware of it right now nor having the practical possibility to embrace life fully. I believe there is hope for you too. That what is chronic, even when it’s a depression, can be perceived and approached in many different ways, ways that we get to decide and nourrish.

You are not a lost cause because you would be “shaped” a certain way. First off, how you feel right now, and how you have felt at your lowest points, doesn’t mean it’s going to be that way for the rest of your life. Depression could be like a shadow, sometimes present, but also sometimes not. What your therapist said is close to approaches based on acceptance. It is an invitation to focus on the present, on what is right here and right now instead of aiming for a specific (and uncertain) goal. It is a fair perspective because our expectations can be so high that we would give up on ourselves easily whenever we hit an obstacle. It could also be a trap because we would have this idea that once we would reach our goal (not being depressed anymore, for example), we could then have a better life than now. But it’s always “after”. “I’ll be happier once I’ll lose x pounds.”, “I’ll be proud of myself once I’ll accomplish this goal”. Truth is, for perfectionists like you and I, this kind of mindset is a trap that slowly kills us, because we’re always focus on the “next” thing, and we think that it’s impossible to be content in the present moment. Especially since it makes any minor inconvenience “wrong”, “bad”, and, in our mind, the manifestation that we are just doomed to never succeed or be happy - which is not fair, nor right, as life is more complex than this.

What your therapist said is an invitation to learn to let go and compose with what is. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to be the same forever! It doesn’t mean you are going to struggle and be subjected to the same things for the rest of your life with the same intensity. When you think about it, a way to approach addictions for example is to consider that one is an “addict” for the rest of their life, even if they don’t use anymore. It is perceived as a vulnerability to be aware of and keep in mind, a higher sensitivity to some susbtances and behaviors. But after a while, and depending on life circumstances, people are not necessarily feeling like battling internally all the time. They grow stronger too. They change and evolve. They feel more asserted in their position and with their own needs. They learn what they might need to avoid in their life or not. Some people, in the long run, will be able to drink again in the example of alcoholism, but in a controlled way. Others would need to be away from anything that contains alcohol. It’s always a personal “recipe” to find over time.

All of this to say, you can live with a fragility without it overwhelming your entire life and consuming all your energy constantly.

I don’t think what your therapist meant was “it is going to be like this forever and there is no possibility of progress”. But more that we don’t know, and so it’s important to stay humble in order to actually progress in the present moment, to learn to let go of specific expectations. I know it’s hard though and it feels like a big slap on the face. When I’ve understood and realized that my depression and anxiety have been there for too long to be “just” a phase, I felt like my entire world was meaningless. There are still times when I feel completely hopeless because obstacles in my life make me feel like I am doomed to never be happy. But there might be some wisdom to take out of our struggles, if we learn to listen to it differently.

A huge element tied to what depression is, one that is more philosophical/spiritual, is what it says to us in terms of personal fulfillment in life. It is a red flag that says: this is not functioning in my life. A major difference between a chronic depression and a clinical one is that the second is often tied to temporary events/circumstances, while the first one is tied to something deeper, something that refers to our core needs, to our search for meaning.

If your depression could speak to you as a friend, what would it say? What does it say to you, not regarding your psychological needs, but for what your heart needs? What does it know about you that you may not be aware of yet, or that you’re afraid to embrace? What do you crave for in this life in terms of doing, making an impact and being impacted? What kind of person do you want to be? What’s on your “bucket list”? What really makes you feel vibrant, what do you feel in your guts? If you feel hurt and disappointed by the idea that you might have a depression preventing you to embrace this life fully, then what are the things you already regret not being able to do, or experience?

These are exactly the things that make this life worth it, and as much as depression is understood and explained clinically, there is still a life and meaning to find beyond psychological and scientific explainations. There is no book and no psychologist that will ever be able to emphasize the power of experiencing things in this life. Therapy is a guidance, not a treatment nor a life sentence.

It’s not all about feeling from an emotional standpoint either. Just your body, for example, conveys so many different ways to experience your relation to the world. Someone who has a handicap and is for example blind for the rest of their life is not living less than others. They are experiencing the world differently, and they even have access to perceptions that we, with our eyes, will always miss and never experience.

Your dreams, what inspires your heart and feeds your soul will always give you a renewed direction to follow. The steps to take in between will be impacted by this obstacle called depression, but that doesn’t mean the journey is going to be a constant pain.

I dont want to just exist i want to feel alive and feel good. but that is not the way my therapy was aiming or any kind of treatement. It was to make me stable not to make me happy.

You are forced to reframe your expectations. It doesn’t have to be less though. It doesn’t to be an all-or-nothing process. It can be a live and let-go one. There is a paradox in healing, with the fact that once we let go of something, we actually start to work on making it possible or getting closer to it. The more we hold onto something, the more it goes away from us. Releasing the grip and trusting the process just as it is, often creates unexpected outcomes. A constant state of happiness wouldn’t be a fair expectation. No one can reach that. Now, what would healing and living mean for you?

This is not a dead end, friend. When a door closes, new pathways can be found, even if it’s not the ones we envisioned at first. Actually, we are generally focused on one way because we are not equipped yet to envision the others. I believe you can still create your own path and not just exist. It is unfair that it requires you to challenge and review your perception of what “healing” means. It doesn’t have to be an all-or-nothing process though. You are alive already. You are fully part of this world, even if the perception of it is impacted by this distance that our depressed minds create. Yet you are here, alive, breathing fully, connected to everything around you.

There is more, even if it has to be different than what you’ve always imagined. It doesn’t mean it would be less. After all, we all follow a different journey, and we all experience the world around us in different manners. All are valid. All are real. All are true. :hrtlegolove:

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Thank you Micro for your insightful responce. I appretiate it.

Today has not been a good day so far. I am tired and numb and just so done. I hate feeling like this. The days are getting worse. I feel like I am in a constant fog. I dont feel like doing anything anymore.

Yes well I dont want to focus on the here and now. The here and now sucks. There are times I feel better sure but those are few and far between. i am supposed to just lower my expectations of what my life should be? I dont really have expectations I just know if I feel right or if i dont. The desire I had the longest is to die and the only expectation i have from life is that it proves me wrong that dying is better than living.

The thought of dying has bee more real lately. I can pisture myself jumping in front of a subway more and more clearly every day. I am so sick of living. I am tired just tired. I want to die.

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I am sorry. I am just… tired.

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I am sorry. I am just… tired.

No need to apologize, my friend. Being tired and processing your last meeting is absolutely understandable, and objectively exhausting. Somehow, it’s about grieving there. Though grieving doesn’t mean something becomes hopeless or meaningless. The path just becomes different.

You are loved so very much. Rest as you need, @Ashwell, even more as necessary. You are not to blame. You will be okay. :hrtlegolove:

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Thank you Micro. Thank you.

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@Ashwell

Sitting next to you. :hrtlegolove:

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Thank you for this. Its a beautiful song. :slightly_smiling_face: I need to prepare topics for tomorrows swat. This song gives me the energy to support people and myself. Thank you. I will do my best at both.

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What a beautiful song.

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I suppose I have gathered enough strenght to truly reply to your reply… fully this time… I am sorry i have been lately in pain a lot… mentaly I mean. I am not ok even tho I try as hard as I can to appear that way. I think I would be a good actor. I have had a lot of practise pretending to be someone else, pretending to be ok, pretending that I am alright. Anyway thank you again for your detailed responce. I am grateful for it. :slightly_smiling_face:

I am sorry I have made you face you worst fears. One of my fears is causing peple here pain. Sometimes I need to let the bad things in my mind out. On one hand I know that this is the place to do so because it is full of love, support and understanding. On the other hand I want to support people here and not drown them in my despair. So when ever I post something negative I am afraid that it will hurt people. That is why I include trigger warnings.

Yes I know. The problem is I have a hard time remembering when I have felt really happy. I can tell you a few times that were good but compared to how many things were terrible is seems so little. I dont have to explain this to you I know you have had far worse experiences than me. I admire you for being so strong and dealing with that. Most of my days are kind of meh. Then there are bad days and then once in a while there is an ok day. There were time when I thought things cant get better. Then they did but… I dont know if there was a time when things were truly good.

Yes I can live with that. It is just so unpredictable and tireing.

That is what I was afraid of.

I dont want to know the answer to that… I have a vivid imagination tho…:upside_down_face:

What I hoped for is that there is just something that will prove wrong. Something that will show me how I have been doing it all wrong and That live is great really. What my inner depression tellsme is that I should have killed myself a long time ago. That deep down I know that life is not worth living and that I should end it. That I should stop playing this game of hope and pretend and that I should end it. It showns me all the pain I could have been spared from if only I hade succeded earlier. It tells me that to get better is very uncertain and very hard and long way but to end it all is certain way of getting out of this place. It tells me that the hope for a better future is just wishful thinking. It tells me that in a world where milions have suffered and died before me without any good reason my life is as hopelessly meaningless as theirs. It tells me that finding happiness in this world is like looking for Faather Christmas. Everybody talks about it. A lot of people promise it. Most people can picture it but nobody ever saw it.

What I feel is that my depression is right even tho the rest of me tries to deny it with every breath. Its like living in a body that wants to live with a mind that wants to die.

These things are so far in between. And the older I get the less of them is.
I guess this iss the way I feel. I was focused on getting better because I knew that i wanted to be shown something that would make me feel differently. Pills, therapy, excercise, hobbies. I tried so many things to silence these thoughts but after my last therapy session… They all came flooding back. I am starting to lose my willingness to deal with the slightest of obsticales. I am thinking of quitting my job. I feel like I want to sleep forever. I just have so little energy. Ash asked me to lead the SWAT tomorrow and i hope I will have enough energy to do so. I want to give people the love and support they deserve but I have so little of it in me right now.

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