the past few days have been really shitty feeling and i’ve just been self loathing more and more. i really hate myself. i’ve wanted to ‘cut’ my arm again but i’m at my brothers and i like to put vaseline on right after so it doesn’t burn all day but i didn’t bring any and they don’t have any so i haven’t been able to. why is there so much wrong with me? why cant i find anything good? why am i so imperfect? why will there always have to be people better than me? why? i don’t get it. i tried talking to my friend while he was a sleeping to tell him about how i was scared of losing him to somebody better than me because all i ever an is boring and he seems so disinterested in our conversations. i asked if he was and he didn’t say yes or no but gave an answer that was yes-seeming. i feel horrible. i’m a really boring person and i’m terrible at conversation so it doesn’t help. my personality sucks and no matter how hard i try to, i can’t think of any good conversation starters or topics and i’m just left with annoying small talk questions. i’m so sick of not being good enough for people. i cant change, i’ve tried. i just want somebody to think i’m good enough as i am now. i get jealous of my friend as well.whenever he mentions talking to other people i get jealous and worried and i wonder whether or not he might be ignoring me so he can have a better and more fun conversation with one of them. he speaks well of the people he’s mentioned so far. i feel like he wouldn’t be able to speak well of me at all if i asked him to… i get it though. there really is nothing to be proud of when you look at who i am as a person. i’m nothing. i don’t know why i want somebody to care about nothing. why should i expect anybody to? it’s like the end piece of bread everybody avoids because the better pieces are inside of it and they only eat the end pieces when there’s none left. or, some people don’t even eat the end pieces at all. kind of a funny comparison but oh well. my back hurts and i have a headache so i’m just writing my thoughts at this time. i hate thinking sometimes. oh and when i tried mentioning it to my friend, i had added a part where i just wanted him to be happy and some stuff and blah blah blah and that part just made him reply to the entire thing with him calling me cheesy. he’s not a bad friend, he’s a great friend, i just wish he would acknowledge my emotions a little more sometimes
raises hand
You got one person here. Now, tell me, what else do you need, friend?
It seems like you’re setting up your friend to fail and then this will confirm all the bad things you believe about yourself. I’m glad you didn’t hurt yourself physically, whatever the reason.
But it seems you are doing it mentally and emotionally. I’d really love for you to start listing more things about yourself that you like.
You deserve friends and happiness, and you deserve to believe us when we say that we all think you’re awesome.
There will always be people who seem better than all of us. There are people who can out run, out jump, out think, and out charm me. If I was a famous track star, it’s inevitable that someone will out perform me sooner or later.
In reality, NO ONE is better than you! No comparison between you and anyone else is valid, because you are unique, and have been born into a culture and circumstances that no one would experience in the same way you have.
Consider two things. 1) With the right person, conversation will come more easily. 2) By feeling so badly about yourself, you have created an emotional barrier, preventing your ability to speak from the part of yourself that isn’t boring.
You don’t need to change! Instead, get to know yourself better. Think about the good things you’ve done, and the kindness you’ve expressed to others. I think you have a decent share of talent in something as well, or perhaps you have yet to discover it.
I suspect it’s common for people to feel as though they’re boring. It’s because we’re so familiar with ourselves, that we feel bland. I’ve seen your other postings, and you’re anything but boring.
I’d like to say more, but I’ve hit a wall of sleepiness, so goodnight.
Has someone actually said that to you or is it what you feel?
Hi echo 
I am so sorry you are feeling so bad. Believe me you dont deserve to feel like that.
Well there is always somebody better than us and there is always somebody worse than us in certain aspects of life. I dont think you are nearly as bad as you think. From what I have read you are a caring and empathic person and that means a lot by itself. We are also all imperfect. Perfect means boring so even perfect things are not perfect. not being perfect is jsut the way everybody is.
I am sorry for this. Sometimes people who we care about dont see us the same way as we see them. Did your friend teell you a reason why they feel this way?
I know the feeling of trying to be good enough for other people but let me tell you this. You should work on yourself not because of others but because of you. There should not be a limit of how good you have to be to get friends you simply make friends with people that you feel connected to. It is not about being good enough it is about finding the right people.
Remember echo you are not some bread you are a person. You just have to find people that love you the way you are. Dont give up on yourself. 
I think it was you who mentioned before that you didn’t want a therapist? Am I remembering this correctly (please tell me if I got it wrong!!)
I see your post, and it pains me for a variety of reasons. I see your emotions like a tight, brightly coloured ball of yarn suffocating you, when there are so many knot-undoers right next to you, that you can reach out and grab if you could just see them. why is there so much wrong with me? You ask a lot of GREAT questions, and I know I tend to have long replies to you. I want you to know that my replies are not just long so I can nag, but I always want to tackle all the bits you ask. My hope is that my replies can get you to think logically about the negative self talk you have, and to see how much harder it makes everything else in your life.
I also know that sometimes we ask a whole lot of questions because we’ve overwhelmed and hurting and just need to get it all out. I’m glad we can be here to provide that safe space.
BUTTT for me, for my own peace of mind, I need to know that if these questions were used for another reason, that I identify it, acknowledge it, and respond to it.
Sometimes it can mean this: “SEE, i told you how i felt and you didn’t see or hear what I was asking you!” I don’t want you to ever feel this way, so I’m gonna spend the time and tackle the ENTIRE post! (read when you can, or when you’re up to it lol) Here goes:
- why is there so much wrong with me?
-What exactly is wrong with you? Can you make a list of things?
- who told you those things were imperfect or wrong?
- why cant i find anything good?
In yourself? others? in us here? In HS? In the world?
- why am i so imperfect?
- who is perfect? Who do you know in real life who is perfect? What about you is lacking in perfection? Is there something you could change to be more perfect? IS there an end to the quest for perfection? HOW will you know when you’ve become perfect?
- why will there always have to be people better than me?
- in the world? Amongst the billions of people alive today and the millions more born every day? Or in all of humanity’s existence? Or amongst your friends? Or the people online who you know only what they show in the social media posts?
- i tried talking to my friend while he was a sleeping to tell him about how i was scared of losing him to somebody better than me because all i ever an is boring and he seems so disinterested in our conversations.
- sleeping people rarely make sense. Or remember what they say, This is nothing about “they tell the truth when they’re sleepy nonsense”. People literally can hold WHOLE conversations while sleepy and not have a clue.
- why did you choose this time to start a heavy discussion?
- i’m a really boring person and i’m terrible at conversation so it doesn’t help.
- is this the vibe you have when you talk to your friend?
- do you constantly ask him over and over if you’re boring him?
- what fun do you do? What books or movies or music do you consume? What new things do you try out? What interesting thoughts have you had?
- my personality sucks and no matter how hard i try to, i can’t think of any good conversation starters or topics and i’m just left with annoying small talk questions.
- have you read any books or listened to any podcasts/YT/skills building workshops that teach you how to have better conversations?
-personalities grow, develop and change as we learn, grow, experience life, learn new skills, etc.
- i’m so sick of not being good enough for people.
- what have you been doing to change this? Have you been told this? What is your basis for this?
- i cant change, i’ve tried.
- what exactly have you tried? For how long? With what intent? Did you do it properly or half-way because you expected it to fail?
- few people can be frozen in time and space and development like this. I’ve seen this awesome show of really senior people teamed up with kindergarten ages kids, and THOSE older folks learnt and grew and changed their minds/outlook/hopes and dreams/comfort levels with certain tasks, etc. If they can do so, what is it about you that is so permanent nad so fixed that it defies most human development?
- i just want somebody to think i’m good enough as i am now.
-This is my fave question!
- Would you believe it? - could you write an “ideal” paragraph about what this would sound like? If there was a perfect friend, what would they say about you? Imagine they were asked: “tell me what you like about Echo?” What would be the greatest, most wonderful and perfect response be? Do you have an idea of that?
- i get jealous of my friend as well.whenever he mentions talking to other people i get jealous and worried and i wonder whether or not he might be ignoring me so he can have a better and more fun conversation with one of them.
- Why do other people make you feel this way? Instead of having one friend, do you think it is possible for you to hang with one of these other friends and have more than one friend? When was the last time you made a new friend (irl or virtual)?
- he speaks well of the people he’s mentioned so far. i feel like he wouldn’t be able to speak well of me at all if i asked him to… i get it though. there really is nothing to be proud of when you look at who i am as a person. i’m nothing.
- again, has he said this? Why would he call you a friend if this is how little or how badly he thinks of you?
- Also related to 10 above.
- i don’t know why i want somebody to care about nothing. why should i expect anybody to?
- who is nothing? You? you have people in your life who care? Do you feel good about dishonouring their love and affection for you? Do you think it’s okay to let your internal voices (that you know lie to you about your worth) be louder than the REAL voices of your friend who say you’re his friend and he cares about you?
- oh and when i tried mentioning it to my friend, i had added a part where i just wanted him to be happy and some stuff and blah blah blah and that part just made him reply to the entire thing with him calling me cheesy
- whats wrong with being called cheesy in this instance? to me, its what we say when we know that we’re cared for, and to state it repeatedly is a bit mushy and cheesy like mashed potatoes, never a bad thing lol
- he’s not a bad friend, he’s a great friend, i just wish he would acknowledge my emotions a little more sometimes
-Again, has he NEVER told you that he cares for you? Do you always question it still?
- Is there a perfect phrase or word he could say that would convince you?
Hey @echo,
I have read with attention this topic and your previous one + the conversations happening, and I just wanted to say that I’m freaking prouf of you - for what it’s worth from me. I get it. How it feels to not just think negative things about yourself, but to literally feel it in your body. This uneasy weight on your chest whenever your deepest fears are showing up, this awful unease in the stomach, the shortness of breath… It is suffocating to feel trapped under the skin of someone you don’t like. It’s tough to even consider that the reality of who you are could be different. After all, if you’ve been hurt repeatedly, there has to be a reason behind? And logically, the first conclusion we have in these circumstances is to believe that it’s because of us, because of who we are.
I understand that you’ve grown up and have been learning to see relationships as something intertwined with hurt, betrayal, distrust. I do too. To be honest, I think that wounds that are deeply tied to a matter of trust can be really hard to shake. It’s a sliding road we can fall into, one made of lies and any sign of what would justify the way we see ourselves. Not because it would be true, but because we’ve been conditioned to feel it as true.
Self-doubt, self-deprecation and deep feelings of worthlessness come with their share of fears and doubts. Some seasons are more calm than others. And sometimes we’re suddenly overwhelmed by so many doubts and stressful scenarios in our mind that it gets really hard to distinguish what belongs to our feelings from what is tied to some rational truth. I’m not saying you are crazy or wrong, by the way. What you feel is very real, deep and present. There’s no way anyone would ever have the right to dismiss or invalidate how you feel. But there is a difference between how we feel and the conclusions we have based on those feelings.
I personally feel SO boring. I can’t do small talk, oh gosh… so stressful. If someone spends a long time with me or has been in my life for a while, at some point I REALLY want to ask them: you know I’m weird and I have nothing to give, right? Like do you see me or just a version you want to see? Because for me, based on the way I see myself, it’s absolutely impossible to want to hang out with me. Heck no.
I’ve been blessed though by some people in my life who haven’t given up on me - or don’t intend to. And that’s when we have some actions to take: relearning to trust people. Which is a freaking, overwhelming process at times. But I can promise you, how worthy it is. Learning to trust others again with myself is probably one of the scariest experiences I had and will still have in the future. Just a couple of hours ago I had an online meeting with a friend, and I ended up crying because of what we were talking about. For 3 hours now it’s been a freaking, constant cycle of unfriendly thoughts in my mind towards myself, and an unshakable feeling of discomfort/embarrassement. That really sucks. But I choose to trust my friend when they’ve said that nothing bad happened and it was okay. And thanks to that, I know that how I feel right now is more like a wave of discomfort to ride, but not one that is made to be felt forever. It is a risk taken, for sure. But it’s also when we learn to trust again, to trust people who are safe to us and really manifest their care/kindness, that we can try to not just heal by ourselves, but also through the relationships we have.
You’ve mentioned before that these inner changes can’t happen magically or instantly, which I totally agree with. It’s objectively a long term process, just because each relationship we had and are going to have are unique. Though even if it feels like a gambling game at times, you can still learn to build some kind of solid ground/emotional mindset for yourself. You may not control the sudden reactions and doubts, these thoughts interfering and making you feel so vulnerable. But you can surely learn to challenge these thoughts once the storm has passed, once you feel a little more calm in your heart.
How do you feel when you share these thoughts on the Wall, afterwards? I think there’s a very precious strength that you hold there, each time you reach out even if it’s just to get something off your chest. Does it help you somehow? And how can we help you to make sure that from venting, you could eventually learn to build, at your own pace, this new solid ground that you deserve? One that would be nurtured by truths that you would learn to approach progressively (they surely can be pretty scary, and even hurtful at first).
I know you are aware of all of this somehow. You are posting here, so there’s a part of you right there that knows your doubts and fears may not deserve all the energy it takes away from you. I would love to think with you about ways to make sure this safe space here can be both a place to develop your trust - in others, in yourself - and your growth.
I care about you. Entirely. Not just parts of you that would be entertaining or funny or joyful. Messy is great. It’s a lot more interesting, and actually less boring, as there is a lot to learn from it and a lot to discover. There’s a lot of beauty in your own complexity. Let’s try to make sure that you can use it at your own advantage and not against you. 
I’m aware i’m unique, everyone is unique. When everyone is unique it no longer makes being unique special. Does that make sense? I get not being able to compare row people with all of the different circumstances and traits and all but that’s why it’s so easy to. It’s easy to meet and find somebody better than yourself and be replaced or thrown away. It’s so easy to.
I don’t just think badly of myself when I try to make conversation, I just think about what I could say. It’s because I can’t ever find words or anything that I think badly of myself. Conversation doesn’t go easily unless both people put in effort. Why would anybody want to put in effort to talk to somebody who is boring them? Like i’ve said with my friend, I don’t know if he’s just really busy recently or doesn’t want to talk to me anymore but I can help but feel as though i’ve done something wrong that’s upset him and he’s avoiding me. I’ve been telling myself that he’s just busy and it’s fine and that he isn’t ignoring me, he just has better things to do right now but I just keep getting the same bad thoughts over and over and I’ve been trying to push them away but it’s hard. I don’t have anybody.
No, i’ve have other people tell me i’m boring. It’s not that i’m used to myself, it’s just that I can look at myself from somebody else’s perspective and see why they wouldn’t want to talk to me because of my personality. Even on here, I want to be able to reply to people to try and make them feel better or give advice but I never know the words to say. I don’t know why my brain won’t work properly.
Nobody has directly said it, but why would they? Even if I were to ask them they’d just lie. All people do is lie.
We haven’t really been talking a whole lot but no, he didn’t. I assume it’s because I can’t hold conversation and am only able to make small talk. He’s probably tired of always having to be the one carrying the conversation. It’s understandable, I cant blame him.
If I did that then i’d never get anywhere. I don’t care about myself. I don’t even want to live. The only reason I do anything now is for the sake of another person but I hardly have a person to do anything for so I don’t know what to do now
It was me, yes lol.
Why would anybody want to waste time undoing a knotted ball of yarn when they could afford to go buy a new one instead? One without all of the complications and the wasted time. They wouldn’t have to make their fingers sore from picking at the strings while trying to undo it, so why? There isn’t anybody that would want to do that. It’s only an inconvenience.
In myself
Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. Just like beauty is said to be. Maybe i’d just like one person to see me as perfect? Perfect as in they know everything bad about me but still accepts it and see it as good anyways.
It feels easier. It feels easier to ask him. And he is able to avoid it if he wants to by saying he’s tired or something or changing the topic. I don’t know. I’d have time to delete it if i regretted it too. Wish I could delete it now. I regret it.
Among the people that my friends know. I’ll never be anybodys favourite friend or anything. I’ll always come last or close to. There’s nothing about me that stands out or is interesting or anything. I care deeply about my friends but that won’t ever be enough for anybody. It’s fine, though. I can live only caring and never being cared about if that’s how i’m meant to be.
I try to have fun when we talk but i’m pretty sure it still bores him. I don’t try to be boring or anything, I just can’t even think of anything.
Occasionally when i’m feeling really bad about myself, but not constant, no.
I’ve read stuff on how to be better at it but I tried it and it just didn’t work for me. There’s gotta be something wrong with my brain. I can think of everything except anything useful.
I cant write a paragraph on anything good relating to myself. I just want somebody to see good things in me. I want them to like things about me and tell me what those things are. I just want somebody to care about me and at least let me know that they do and do things that show they care as well. I feel so hated and unwanted all of the time, I just want somebody to tell me they want me to talk to them and to be there and that they enjoy me being around. Why is that so much to ask for?? What is so wrong with me???
I’m insecure and hate myself so when somebody talks good of another person, I see what good they’d be for them and how useless it is to talk to me. It’d be better for them if they left me anyways. The other person would probably be able to make them feel happier when they needed it 
2. I don’t really like talking to other people. I don’t like talking to most people, I should say. I get attached to one person usually and just like to focus on them. I have another friend named Alex that I talk to over Instagram using voice messages. She and I only communicate a few times a day depending on how busy we are though but it’s okay. 3. Kind of pathetic to admit that I haven’t had any irl friends since middle school. Even then, I didn’t really have any. I don’t talk to anybody other than my family irl. Most of my social engagements have been online since I was around 9. I’ve always relied on online friends more than anybody else because they were the only people who would talk to me. I haven’t made any in months though. I don’t really plan on it either, people are complicated and selfish.
i’m going to reply in a separate message to the rest okayokay
I’ve really been trying to combat the thoughts in my head and look at what he’s said instead but it’s hard. I cant keep everything out when there’s more bad things to think about than good things.
unique to the person. he wouldn’t mean it as something good
Im just somebody who needs reassurance. I won’t ask for it because it’s just a nuisance to have to tell somebody that when you dislike saying those things. It’s fine, i can just deal with it myself though
I want them to like things about me and tell me what those things are. I just want somebody to care about me and at least let me know that they do and do things that show they care as well. I feel so hated and unwanted all of the time, I just want somebody to tell me they want me to talk to them and to be there and that they enjoy me being around.
Okay, let me try this.
I consider you a friend, we’ve talked a fair bit through our posts.
Do you know one thing I like about you? How considerate you were to me, just now. You took the time to read through that LONGGGG post or mine, and to answer each honestly and carefully. That is a LOT of effort, and I genuinely am very happy to see it. Thank you for making me feel seen and heard, and for making me think that my many questions were fine to ask, and that I didn’t annoy you with them.
There aren’t many folks who would take the time to do what you just did. So that is one thing about you that I like, with clear evidence. 
Second thing I like about you:
Your writing in your posts are clear and open, and you bare your feelings with a lot of honesty. That is a skill that take a while for some of us to develop, and your honest posts inspire me to be more open here too. So thank you for that, as well.
and PS, I’ve also been told I’m boring at times… and I just giggle, because I remember the joke that’s just the funniest thing I ever heard: A horse walked into a bar, and the bartender asked, “Why the long face?”
If you can come up with a lamer joke that you think is the funniest thing ever, then you may be more boring than me, but I seriously doubt it!! 
Now listen here Sita… I hate to break it to you but whenever somebody asks me a joke, I say “Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side” And burst out laughing. You cant win this here duel. 
I would say that about myself. I’m an honest person. I’m not one to lie to people or enjoy telling them. I guess that’s one good thing
two digits were walking down the road, the numbers 0 and 8. they were long time friends.
Finally, 0 could take it no longer and leaned over to 8 and asked, “Dude, I gotta ask… why do you always tighten your belt that much??”
YAAAYYY
we agree on one positive thing! Great start!
start writing list furiously as the Confetti Canon explodes
That’s why I tell people, “you are special, just like everyone else.” 
There is a quote in the poem “Desiderata,” “if you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.” In truth, I don’t believe that is such a thing as greater or lesser persons, but the poem is several hundred years old, so I think that’s the best they could do at the time. It does make the point, comparing leads to problems.
Not being able to think of what to say in the moment, is very common among people who are shy and/or introverted. It’s hard to be witty and spontaneous while experiencing stage fright that makes the mind go blank. There are so many awkward silences in conversations with me, that they are no longer awkward for those who are used to me. When I write here, there is frequently a five or 10 minute gap between sentences. Often, when I walk away from a conversation, I think of a thousand things that I could’ve said but didn’t. So many people enjoy talking, especially about themselves, that my quietness turns out to be convenient for them.
Those who would say such a thing are marinated in their own fragile egos. Quiet people are boring to those who are vain and shallow.
I have seen several encouraging messages from you, encouraging others, but around August, things were especially hard for you, and that’s when you seem to have started having more difficulty finding words. If I was in a room with you, we could sit in silence until you felt relaxed and safe enough that words would begin to flow from you. I would find you quite interesting.
I believe you are struggling with both anxiety and a loss of confidence. Your mind is perfectly fine, but has reacted to emotional pain in a highly predictable way.
That’s a “dad joke.” I ought to know because I am a dad. I capitalize on jokes that are so bad that they are good. I used to say totally ridiculous things with a straight face, expecting a laugh. I stopped doing it when I found that some people actually believed what I was saying. I thought by telling them I was joking, it would make them feel embarrassed for having taken me seriously.
You are a sensitive, thoughtful and compassionate person. Your presence is a gift. Anyone who doesn’t realize that is thick headed.