Little Upset -- Volunteerism, Interpersonal Issues, and Mistakes [TW: Threats of Suicide]

Hey there,

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads it (I know, it’s long). For a little side-note: I know there are no easy solutions to this and don’t expect an “answer” from anyone. I’m even perfectly fine if this gets no responses – it just helps to put it down somewhere.

Basically, about a month ago, I had a major interpersonal issue with an organization (youth-led, volunteer-run) that I am on the board of (and a major volunteer contributor). To keep things as brief as possible, another board member (our founder and former CEO) was upset about a lot of things in the organization and decided to take out his pain as anger toward me. He sent multiple extremely inappropriate messages to the board attacking me (for truly no reason), made numerous ultimatums (including some threats that involved his own safety, illegal actions, and much more), and basically did everything he could think of to hurt me. And the “kicker” was that I didn’t feel like it was safe to respond to his many defamatory messages and accusations because he implied that he’d consider suicide if I responded. He also had been a friend of mine and role model for well over a year before the incident, so that made this hurt extra bad (he even called me his greatest regret in life – and unfortunately I know that this is true, even if it’s ridiculous).

That situation has been largely resolved. He’s safe and I’m willing to work with him again. However, he doesn’t seem to be willing to work with me unless he’s able to regain my trust and forgiveness first, neither of which are expected anywhere in the near future. However, he’s still part of the organization so I’m stuck dealing with the many issues that he’s causing and he is even making a play for more power now.

I’m doing everything possible to work with him but he just keeps escalating and causing issues for me. He puts half our board meetings on a stand-still because he feels the need to constantly discuss our incident (including multiple variants on proposals to remove me, which have all been voted down by the board). He also has, on multiple occasions, stated that he would commit to a choppy transition if we were to remove him or go against his wishes, which is just ridiculous to me.

That said, he also had been CEO for five years in the past. He’s probably given more than anyone else to this organization. Because of that, it doesn’t seem fair to him to call for his removal either (and I honestly don’t want to deal with the choppy transition – I have way more than enough on my plate without needing to deal with that too). I’m also a strong believer that one incident shouldn’t color a person’s entire history, even if the incident was egregious.

One final side-note: I’ve never even enjoyed my role in the organization. Frankly, I don’t enjoy administrative work and I’ve needed to play way too much office politics in this position. I took the role because I knew that the organization would need to shut down if we couldn’t fill it, and I was one of very few people qualified for the position (and willing to volunteer 10-20hrs/wk). We still don’t have any potential replacements – and it’s honestly almost impossible to find any in the near future – so we would need to shut down if I quit. Our organization serves over a thousand students per year, so I also don’t want to quit because then all those students will lose access to our services – it’s not fair to those students, our volunteers, and our volunteer leadership team if I leave. But it’s also not fair to myself if I stay.

On an unrelated note that’s also been bugging me, there are also three people who I’ve been trying to help out and give support to recently, who I’ve ended up hurting more than I’ve helped (both in and out of the HS community). While my intent was pure, I made the mistake of getting them to expect that I’m able to invest more into a relationship than I’m practically able to. I’m there to chat with people and listen to them, and I love doing it, but I often can’t keep chatting forever and I’ve made the mistake of not being upfront about that with people. Because of that, many of them feel betrayed when they learn that I’m unable to be a long-term friend. I’ve learned my lesson, and can’t do much besides looking forwards and being more careful to be upfront, but I still wish that I hadn’t hurt these people – many were already hurting before they met me and none did anything to deserve more pain.

Anyhow, that’s all from me today. If you somehow got through such a long post, thank you for reading.
-Tuna

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I did read your post to the end. I think I heard a lot of sorrow and maybe some weariness. Take good care of you as you make your way through all that’s going on in your life. Blessings for this new day~

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You’ve been through the absolute ringer here!

  1. Have you been keeping everything documented? Saving messages and writing down incidents even if it’s just something said in passing? I strongly believe in any work place (volunteer or not) that in cases of bullying and harrassment that the victim should always have everything documented.
  2. Is there a representative for you to confront them with? Like HR or anything? I know this person was founder and former CEO, but I was hoping there would be other members in place for these very incidents.

Threatening suicide to get your way is ridiculous and not at all okay. I’ve personally had people make threats in relationships like that, and I really hope you haven’t felt the guilt and the burden of those threats.

If I am to be completely honest, at this point in my life I have learned that being “selfish” for the sake of my mental and emotional well-being is okay. I understand and can fully appreciate your concern for the students who this organisation has helped. It sounds like this person’s intentions aren’t really so much focused on doing the right things. Is this volunteer work worth hurting yourself so much and being in an environment where people are toxic and not owning their mistakes? The thing is that people are expecting so much from you because you’re volunteering. You’re giving your time to help others, so you should be selfless and do all these hours and give so much of yourself. NOOO… the resentment builds and the purpose is lost.
I think you’d be so much happier and find more genuine connection if you found an organisation that only asked if you what you can realistically provide. And then you start to realise and accept that you’re not actually being selfish.

On your last note there, I think that when it comes to heart support, there are so many people here willing to help and to listen, and it’s okay to take a step back and let someone else take the reigns. You’re here offering your time to people and giving them some much needed care and support. So allow yourself some boundaries. Allow yourself to say for example okay during this time of the day while I’m answering posts, that’s my time to help this community. As much as it would be nice to be able to be there for people, it’s draining when they need you more than you can realistically be there. Don’t feel bad for living life outside this community or any other community. Or if you’re happy to have someone chat with you directly, be clear “okay, I’m needing to go now and I’ll be back tomorrow if you’d like to discuss further”. If they’re wanting more time from you or wanting you to stay you can always direct them to another resource or person to talk to.
I hope that doesn’t sound harsh, but you need your own boundaries.

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Firstly, I’d like to thank you for reading and providing such a thoughtful response. It is highly appreciated. Also, thank you @CatherineAnne for the support too; it’s so kind of both of you.

In regard to some of your questions/comments:

Yes, he hasn’t been private about any of his actions. Nearly all of them are in chat logs that the board can see (sent most of them into a Slack channel that has the whole board in it). I’ve also retained notes from each time we’ve met since the incident, though most of the truly horrible stuff he said was in written chats, not in calls or similar.

Unfortunately, the short answer is not really. We’re an all-volunteer organization (AVO) so we do have other board members who have been trying to help handle the conflict. Generally, I would be the person who would actually be in charge of handling similar issues within our organization.

That said, I have spoken to him about the incident both 1:1 and with others present since it occurred. Generally speaking, he recognizes that his actions were inappropriate but continues attempting to shift the blame in various ways.

He has largely been blaming the lack of separation of the board from executive staff (who are all volunteers, by the way) for his outburst. He isn’t completely wrong in saying that, in my opinion (mostly because I believe that the board would have removed him after this incident if they were separate from executive staff). I’m actually generally in favor of separating the board from executive staff (even though I’d lose a lot of power in this), but I honestly would not be able to support his candidacy for what the new board would be and I know for a fact (because he’s directly said this) that if he gets anything less than chairperson, he’ll go back to committing to a choppy transition.

I just want to add a mention that this point really resonated in me, as I’ve honestly known that it’s true but just have trouble accepting it. I’ll wait a little while to see if I still feel the same way in a few weeks, but will probably tell the board that I intend to resign at the end of this year – seems like a fair compromise between my morals (and what the organization needs) and my general well-being.

Also, to be completely honest, I’ve known that I’ve needed to do this for a while but if the person who’s been continuing to cause issues continues after one more discussion with me, I’ll probably just call for his removal. I’m 90% sure that I’ll be able to get sufficient board support and can honestly always resign if I get too sick of dealing with him and the board won’t support his removal – I’ve already had a formal resignation letter drafted for a long time now.

With all that said, I just want to thank you again for reading and for your input and support. That is so kind of you and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
-Tuna

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Hey there @eagertuna0,

It’s good to see you!

I just wanted to touch base on this part of your post:

On an unrelated note that’s also been bugging me, there are also three people who I’ve been trying to help out and give support to recently, who I’ve ended up hurting more than I’ve helped (both in and out of the HS community). While my intent was pure, I made the mistake of getting them to expect that I’m able to invest more into a relationship than I’m practically able to. I’m there to chat with people and listen to them, and I love doing it, but I often can’t keep chatting forever and I’ve made the mistake of not being upfront about that with people. Because of that, many of them feel betrayed when they learn that I’m unable to be a long-term friend. I’ve learned my lesson, and can’t do much besides looking forwards and being more careful to be upfront, but I still wish that I hadn’t hurt these people – many were already hurting before they met me and none did anything to deserve more pain.

I personally relate a lot to this, as someone who tends to be on the side of people-pleasing rather on the assertion of strong boundaries. We know what it costs though - confusion, wrong expectations, and inevitably burn-out. It was very thoughtful, caring and healthy of you to clarify your personal availability with people, and I want to insist on the fact that their emotions and reactions to that are not your responsibility. I know, easier said than done, right? And somehow, if we look at situations as chains of actions, we can’t help trying to figure out a cause to the consequences. However, learning those boundaries, even if it can be hurtful at times, is also serving the people you try to help. You are being honest, with them and with yourself. Doing the opposite will probably work for a little bit, but at some point the damage would become so much more important than the hurt they might feel from the interactions you just had.

What helps me personally is to be clear with myself regarding who’s my “close circle” or people - the ones where relationships are mutual, and who is part of a larger circle in which it goes one way - me supporting them. The energy that it requires for both is very different, so are the dynamics at play. It does help to be clear at the beginning of private interactions. I personally say it explicitly, especially since I tend to stop conversations without saying it - I end up quickly overwhelmed. Something like: hey, just so you know I’m the kind of person who gets easily overwhelmed so if I don’t respond that doesn’t mean I don’t care, it’s simply not the right time for me/I don’t have the bandwidth for that kind of conversation.

People generally really understand and respect that. At some point, they might be hit by the thought “oh, they don’t care/they don’t love me…”, but that is also part of their own healing/growth to happen. They also need to experience the fact that care and consistency doesn’t mean interacting together all the time. Just like respecting others boundaries is fundamental.

Keep in mind that you’re not hurting them/causing them the pain they might feel. It is more complex than that, and ultimately there is a need for trust to be built on both ends. It takes time. On your end, this is definitely a learning process. Although I can assure you, there is nothing selfish in being your own priority as well. Actually, it doesn’t just have an effect on you, but also on your ability to listen when that is possible. I’m personally a firm believer that self-care has an impact on the quality of the support we give to others, and knowing this helps to see boundaries as an act of love, not rejection.

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Thank you so much, @Micro, for the thoughtful message. Your perspective is greatly appreciated and made me feel a lot better. I also am confident that your insight will help me in the future because I do like to and want to continue helping others when I can. As always, thank you so much! You’re awesome!

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From: sea__kay

Hey eagertuna0, that’s such a tough situation you have going on there and definitely none where I could give any helpful advice. It is absolutely understandable that you don’t want to let anyone down and that you want these services to be provided to the students. What caught my attention in your post is that you invest up to 20 hours per week into this. I don’t know about your situation, but for volunteering that’s a lot of work to put in and to have on your plate on top of everything else. Do you have time for yourself, hobbies, self-care, and things like that? It’s okay to have boundaries and it’s okay to say no. Not that it’s easy but it’s necessary to not forget about yourself and your own needs. Put yourself first. You matter. Sending you much love.

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From: ᏒᎧᏕᎥᏋ

Hi Friend. You have such a good heart and when people are hurting its hard not to be there for them, even when you know you should be taking care of your self. Also, we can’t be responsible for someone who may come to expect more than you’re willing to give. It’s a touchy subject, but I think you need to treat yourself with love and compassion too and not be so hard on yourself. You are loved! ~Mystrose

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Oh…my dear friend,

My heart aches for you right now. I know how this can be at times. You do all the things & none of those things return to you. I want you to know how much of a good person you are. You give to so many people and you are so appreciated. I know that this situation doesn’t fit into that category, but it doesn’t define you as a person.

One of my favorite sayings is: ‘You cannot pour into others from an empty cup.’ I believe this to be true for you. We are all our own worst critics. You are an amazing person. I am thankful to know you & work alongside you during SWAT meetings. You encourage me to be better every day. Thank you for being you.

You are valid. You are enough. You are amazing. You matter, so much. :yellow_heart:

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From: SuchBlue

Hi Tuna,

It really seems like you are doing this simply because so many people are counting on you and that you are in such a tough situation. I want you to keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with having your own time, to care about yourself and rest and do other things that you enjoy doing, and your whole life does not have to depend on this. You are a human just like everybody else. It’s okay to refuse to do something when you feel like it’s needed, after all you are definitely doing your job if everything is depending on you. It’s not selfish to put importance on yourself, and you are definitely important :hrtlegolove:

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From: Taladien

Hey friend,

You have one of the biggest hearts I’ve encountered, Tuna. I could tell that just after 1 evening of SWAT with you. I hate to hear about the quagmire that you’ve found yourself in. Giving so much of yourself to help others, only to be caught up in the drama from another person, taking away from the focus of the work you are putting your hand to.

You may have heard me say this before. “Physician, attend thyself”. You give so, so, sooooooo much of yourself to help others. Don’t forget to time to to also give to yourself. Refill your own cup, so that you can keep pouring to others in need. You will keep doing good in this world, I am 100% sure of it. But take care of yourself, too. Give yourself a tune-up (Tuna-up?.. I’ll see myself out) so that you can hit the ground running again. You are awesome. Keep being amazing :hrtlegolove:

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From: Lisalovesfeathers

Hey Tuna, Wow you have been through so much friend haven’t you?? My goodness how do you keep it all together. I am so very sorry that all that happened at you work, , its not fair the way you were treated and are still being treated and it does seem like you are tied to that position and the point of being a volunteer is that you are not meant to feel tied, you should be there because you want to be. I truly hope that something changes for you in the near future that will able you to either move away from that position or the entire organisation so that you do not have to deal with that person anymore. You do not deserve this, you are such a caring and kind person. As for here for Heartsupport, you, we do all we can here to support and help the people that come here looking for encouragement and kindness and you friend are the epitome of both and occasionally it is still not enough and people get attached and want more and its just not possible but that is not your fault and you have nothing to feel bad about. I haven’t known you very long but I would be honoured to have you respond to anything I write, I think you are absolutely awesome. I do however think its time for you to do some self care, its time for tuna to care for tuna. I hope you do. Much Love Lisa xxx

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It’s sad that he’s made his actions so public and still has so much more power to treat people with disrespect. I’m so sorry for that situation!
I do hope that you do put yourself first, and I know that it can be a hard thing to do when you perhaps feel guilty doing so, but you do deserve the same respect and support you give to others.

And micro is a wonderful soul who is spot on! Personal availability is always something that needs to have boundaries, whether it’s work, volunteer or online community relationships. One thing I sometimes have to tell myself which sounds rather blunt is that if I get injured, have to leave due to harrassment or other reasons, my position is replaceable, but my body is not.
You as the human you are are never replaceable, but the vacant spot left in a job where people care more about production than the health of those involved tends to have that mentality.

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